Episode #2 (54 min): Our guest, Darrell Mattison, is the father of running back Alexander Mattison, who plays football for the Minnesota Vikings.
In addition to a strong start in his first season with the Vikings – averaging over 4.6 yards per carry and scoring his first NFL touchdown – Alexander is also known for having been a student-athlete.
In high school, he excelled in both the classroom and on the field – graduating with a 4.7 GPA and running 2,000 yards in both his Junior and Senior years. At Boise State, he received the Mountain West Scholar-Athlete Award and had >2,800 rushing yards in his junior year.
Alexander’s father, Darrell, is a great man. He’s a veteran, a cancer survivor, and an amazing father to his three sons.
Darrell talks about why he made academic excellence the top priority and how he led by example when it came to the classroom. He also talks about how he supported his son’s passion to play football, the support provided by family & friends, and race relations.
Alexander Mattison 2019 Season Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwToGpJUbwc
Alexander Mattison Vikings Profile: https://www.vikings.com/team/players-roster/alexander-mattison/
Transcript likely contains some errors. Enjoy the episode!
Jonathan V: Well Darrell thank you so much for joining us here today. Greatly appreciated. It’s really an honor to talk with you and I’d really like to start with what would seem to me as a father to be a particularly special moment as you think back to 2019. Could you tell me where you were and how you were feeling in the third round of the NFL draft when your son Alexander was drafted to the Minnesota Vikings?
Darrell: It was a surreal moment for I think everyone. Leading up to it, he had been training in Arizona. As he was training we stayed in contact. I’d normally call him on Sundays. As we got closer to the draft, I initially wanted to have like a big thing for him since we’re coming from San Bernardino, a lot of our friends and people that had helped wanted to be a part of it. And, he had come to me and said, “Dad, I would really prefer just to do something smaller,” he said. “Because I know I’m going to be emotional. I’m going to be going through a lot of different things. And, I wouldn’t want people that aren’t intimately in our family involved.” So, we ended up having to do it at my sister’s house with about maybe 20-25 people — of course close family, uncles, my sister, his cousins, my friends, his barber. People that to me were interested in helping mold him as well as me and my wife. But, I think that the key thing with Alex was he was so calm. And, I couldn’t get it. I couldn’t sleep. I was nervous. I was going through all these different emotions and I walked past his room and he’d be snoring. It gave me comfort in that. What actually happened was, I spoke to his agent. Basically what he had said to Alex was: “It’s about a 15 percent chance that you’re going on Friday.” So we’d already blocked off Thursday. I mean Thursday, he wasn’t going first or second. I mean, first round. He said “Mr. Mattison, I’m not going to sugar coat it for you. It looks like it might…it’s like a 50 percent chance that he’ll go in the third or fourth round on Friday.” So, I said OK and I talked to Alex about it. And, Alex’s thing was as he was going through football and in school, he was always told one percent of y’all will make it to the NFL. To Alex, in his eyes, he said, “I was always told that I was going to have one percent chance of making it to the NFL. So, 15 percent sounds like a win to me.” And so that was his attitude going into it. So as we sat there, you know, our family we were cooking food and everybody fellowshipping(?) and enjoying the moment. As the second round went on we knew where he was ranked at is as running backs, but it doesn’t matter where you’re ranked, because they need a bigger back, a smaller back depending on what they already have. And, as the teams that he already met with started picking up the running backs, we started getting a little uneasy. I remember getting into the third round and a couple of other teams had picked the running backs so I started feeling uneasy, because in my mind this is my son. We have all these people here. I knew regardless he would go Saturday but that’s not what I wanted. We’re all here today. In my mind I wanted it to happen today in front of his family and loved ones. And it got towards the end of the third round and we’re looking at the teams that were left. And so I said to Alex. I said, “Did you talk to the Vikings?” He said, “At the combine I spoke to them once, but they never called, never followed up. we never heard anything else about them. So the teams we had spoke to were the Chicago or the Chiefs. Teams like that, they already picked the running backs. Actually, I got up and I went in the bathroom and actually prayed, you know. I basically was saying to God, “Don’t let this day end without my son experiencing this with his family and friends.” We came back out. We were sitting next to each other on the couch and I started asking him about the Vikings. I said, “Well if they’re going to pick you, they should be calling now, because they call you prior to it being announced on the TV.” And, right about that time the Vikings disappeared from the pick. They were gone. And then maybe 3-4 minutes later they came back in. So they had traded out the round and decided that they will come back in to get Alex, because they figured they wouldn’t be getting him the next day. As soon as we said that the phone rings, you know. We’re listening to him talk. But, sitting on that side and watching your son’s dream starts, everyone … the tears already started at this time for everyone. He’s crying so of course, you see your son crying you’re going to cry too. So, they got very horrible pictures of us from that time. So then, after he came up, everybody erupts. We’re all excited. You getting all these emotions out and then literally 4 minutes later you now have to quiet back down so you can hear it on the TV. So as we sat there waiting for them to actually announce it on the TV and you heard his name, that is the epitome to me of accomplishment — not as a father, not because you’re going to the NFL. Whatever much he would have done, I’m proud of, but his dream was to do that from early on from 6. And, my thing with by keeping with football is you can be talented, but in my household, you had to have good grades. It doesn’t matter what the school says you can play football with, you’re not going to play with a C in my house and I don’t care how good you are. That was established early on. And, me and his mother always made sure that’s what happened. So, if he hadn’t finished his homework by the time football practice started, he would sit on the side and finish his homework before he could go into practice. What you’re not going to do is play and not do what you’re required to do. Because, you know, football is fun but there’s injuries. There are so many things that can happen that can derail a dream.
Jonathan V.: Right
Darrell: But, they can’t take your education. That was most important in our household was education first, everything else second, And, you known, of course, you’re going to be like, “Well he’s really good!” Well, he hasn’t finished his homework so he’s not going to be able to go to this or go to that. and what Alex understood was: if it was something that you really want to do then, what are you willing to do to get there? So, if my requirement is my grades, then I will make sure my grades are where they are so I can always do what I love to do. And then when he graduated high school he had a 4.7. Yes so. People always ask did we always think he was going to go to the NFL. And to me, it’s not…that wasn’t something that you hold stock. That’s not saying it’s not doable, but when you say I want to be a fireman, I want to be a police officer or a lawyer, those are the only things I know we can make happen. When it’s something like football, I’m like I didn’t say no. Anything that my children decided they want to do or try, we see that. You know, they did soccer, they did baseball, they did football, boxing. So whatever they did we fed it until that’s not what they want to do anymore. Football stayed consistent. I’m actually a veteran so in California, they have…if you’re a child of a vet, a disabled vet, you don’t pay for anything Cal State or UC for free.
Jonathan V.: That’s terrific.
Darrell: They’ll pay for your tuition and they’ll do your books. That’s why I explained to him that we don’t have a lot of money so I say, “If you actually want to go to a different university outside of California, your grades are what was going to get you because you’re going to have to get a scholarship.” When the time he started to get all these offers from these different schools, he actually went to go visit Boise. And, I remember him calling me, “Dad, I wanna be a Bronco.” All these opportunities are coming but he said, “Dad, I don’t want to go anywhere else. I want to start here.” And, I would never want to be the dad that said, you know, you’re going to go here and something happens and then you always regret it or look at me like you made me go there when I did. And I’ve always trusted Alex’s decisions have been wise when he decided he wanted to do something. Our family, we really did look at the NFL until his sophomore year. That season started feeling more within our grasp. That was my main thing so even then his main focus was still his grades — so he still was always on a roll, in dean’s list — after a while. The day of the draft, that was the most important part was watching my child’s dream come to fruition in front of us when everybody was there to share it.
Jonathan V: I imagine, yeah. That’s wonderful. Thinking back to when the boys were young, what was it that you and your wife are doing and how would you describe your household?
Darrell: I was living in Dayton, me and his mom. I was young and wild and doing things I shouldn’t have. My sister would call me and said, “You really should get out of Dayton, because there’s nothing there for you. There’s nothing positive going on in Dayton.” At the time, the GM plans were closed down. There were, you know…so a lot of jobs had been lost and it just didn’t…it wasn’t working. My wife, she was actually pregnant with Alex when I decided I was going to go. And so I told her (it was 1996) that I was going to go and sleep on my sister’s couch for about 3 months. Get a job. Get us a place. Furnish it. And I’ll be back in February to take you and the boys. However, her family said, “ well I don’t think you’re coming back.” The one thing that … coming up I was raised by my grandmother and I was with my parents at different times. But it was often on sporadic and so I always felt that, yes my grandmother she raised you so you weren’t raised by a man, but I still feel like you need a man or a father figure, uncle, someone that’s going to be that male voice — the ying to the yang of your mom. I actually moved out to California… actually caught a greyhound to California and worked and got everything furnished in that complex. In February I came back and packed up all our things. They flew out and me and my friend drove all our stuff back out to California and Alex was born actually in June, June 19th. So our house … so me and his mom both worked. We worked alternate schedules. Like she was Sunday through Wednesday and I was Wednesday through Saturday. They receive equal time for both of us so when she was at work, I had the boys and nurtured and did what I could, And then, it got to a point where we were both working all these hours, we were working 2 jobs each, where we can … the child care basically was a check, the monthly check. And I said to my wife, “Well it would make more sense if you just stay home with the boys and then I’ll work.” And doing it that way, it gave her a chance to nurture and give them the love. I was more … not necessarily authoritarian but I worked in a group home so I saw what kids who didn’t have someone to guide them…they ended up with us and what they were going through, so my focus from that, because I never heard of a group home before, I’ve only just moved to California, was to make sure that my kids weren’t going to go down that path. Any of those things that normal kids and their friends were doing, me and my wife wouldn’t allow, because there’s no reason that a 12 or 13-year-old should be out after midnight at some house. And same with my wife. They had friends. My wife always went over and met their parents before they can spend the night. So we did all those things that we thought were necessary. And, I think the blessing was that me and my wife were both from Ohio so we had the same midwestern home upbringing. We never bumped heads with the way we parented. We’re pretty much raised the same so we knew how we were going to raise our kids and we had the conversation early on.
Jonathan V: That’s great.
Darrell: When we’re young growing up, our cousins were our first friends. You know that’s who… I modeled myself after my older cousins. The key thing with me and my sister was we’re gonna make sure our kids, whether it’s fishing, camping, they’re going to do all these things together. As cousins they’re very close. They actually have a…it’s called a “Ippy 5” (?)which is Madison Brandy 5, because we have my 3 and her 2. And they’re close to this day. That was the main thing. So family first was… well God first then family and that’s what we went through. So I actually had got cancer. And during that time I couldn’t work. And, the thing that was so crazy was I was the breadwinner so when I was working my whole time in the hospital I’m not thinking about getting better I’m thinking about I need to get out make sure that my family taken care of. And that’s what my sister, my cousins…they stepped in so that I can get better. But during that time there wasn’t a lot of money. We actually lost our home right then. I had to stay with my sister for a few weeks until we got another place. So they experienced a hardship. And the important story was, when Alex’s birthday came around and I said to myself, “What do you want for your birthday?” And he said, “Dad, that I know we don’t have a lot of money right now I don’t need anything.” And I said, “No, it’s your birthday. You’re going to get something.” So, he said, “Just get me a staple ring(?).” And I learned early then that my children had learned A to be humble and to appreciate everything that you have. And that’s why now as he excels in the NFL, yes, he’s still the same humble person that he was prior to.
Jonathan V: That’s wonderful I’m really curious about…you mentioned that you and your wife were very in sync in terms of your approach to parenting. I think you also mentioned that you and your wife had a conversation early on. Was that about how you want to approach parenting and what did that sound like?
Darrell: The conversation actually happened once we got to California when the twins were born. We were still young. I think I was 24 and so we were still in our heyday. But once we moved and I understood that life doesn’t change because you move somewhere else. Life changes because you change. So, if you’re alcoholic there is a liquor store in every state, right, that you’re still able to go get a bottle of liquor in. It’s not going to stop you from being an alcoholic because you went from Ohio to California. So when we got to California, we had to understand that if our life was going to be different we had to do different things than we did in Ohio. And like everything we did directly affected our children. If we argue and we were loud, they heard that. You have to be mindful of all those things when you raise them. So our goal was: what do we need to do to do it? So, I think what it ended up being was we talked about it and we made structure for our kids. So, if you got up in the morning, you still took a nap from 12:30 to 1:30. You ate lunch at 12 before you lay down. Things like that. So, the structure was the plan and they always understood what time they were going to take a bath, what time we’re going to start getting ready to go to sleep. Video games: you can only play video games Fridays and Saturdays. The rest of the week you could read books, do other things, but video games were reserved for Fridays and Saturdays. Sundays, you do board games with the family or things like that. So, they always had a structure. They always understood what was necessary. You got your haircut every 2 weeks. So it was just common things that they became accustomed to and made it easier so you don’t have a problem when you’re in Walmart your kid grabbing everything up or throwing a tantrum and laying on the floor because he can’t get something. Our kids…we didn’t have these problems with them because of how we structure everything. So, they understood a look or walk or when they went to school parent-teacher day. When you first go in with the teachers, we always make them give me my cell number, my mom..I mean my wife’s cell phone number. And if you have any problem with our kids feel free to call us and you won’t have that problem the next day. So, the teachers understood that they have someone at home doing it. And, the key thing is kids go to school to learn, but when they get home you have to reinforce what they learn. And, my wife has a spirit of doing that so. She’s always help children. She’s tutored. She’s ran children’s programs. So, it’s easy for her when they came home to make sure that they got it in the bag. They were doing their homework before… they ate first and then doing homework before TV or anything else. And my sister was a…has her masters in mathematics so whenever with math — something I wasn’t really good at — my sister always came through and she was there to help them learn that. So, even that with me going to school. I had gone to college but I stopped. But, as they got into high school and I saw them getting ready to graduate, it was important for me to graduate from college before they graduated high school so that they understand that we have to finish what we started.
Jonathan V: So you were going to college part-time. How did that start and how are you balancing all of that between work and college and being an engaged father?
Darrell: When I first moved to California I started and I took maybe a semester or a year… I took a year actually. And then, as I tell my kids, life happens. Bills were happening and I couldn’t go to school full time. And, okay, so maybe 10 years went by before I went back to school and it was just at a point…like I said, “I made a conscious decision that whatever it was going to take for me to graduate before they did…” Because I wasn’t even concerned about walking. It was funny because my sister…she was like when I was getting my AA, she said, “Are you walking?” And I’m like, “For what?” I was getting my Bachelor’s. She was like, “No, your sons need to see you walk. your sons need to see you graduate both times.” That fueled me. When I was actually trying to get to Cal State and I end up taking Algebra for summer which is accelerated, which I should have never done. I was actually failing Algebra. The instructor came around and he said, “Well you know you have to make a decision if you were to drop the class or not. So, this is where your percentage is now and this is what you need to do to get it.” I remember calling my sister and said, “I think I’m going to drop this class and just do it again.” And she said, “No.” So, she would come….we would take our lunch breaks from work together and study. She would come to my house after work and we would study. My sons would see that. And so I accomplished that, got my AA and move on to get Cal State. The drive I wanted Alex to have. you need to see. I could tell you, you know, plenty of things to do or what I’d do. You know parents always say, “Do as I say not as I do.” That doesn’t actually work. Because your kids are going to mimic you regardless of whether you want to or not. That was important to me to make sure that I did that work for them…for my goal is to make sure they knew that they can accomplish anything they want and I still feel like that. My son now wants to be a police officer. He works full time, he runs a Starbucks store and he goes to school. He saw it so he knows it’s doable.
Jonathan V: Well, you must be very proud of him to see him continuing to aspire to achieve his goals and following that example that you set.
Darrell: So, that’s why I wasn’t worried about Alex going to Boise because I knew it was embedded into him already. So you don’t have to be over him to make sure he does that. Another thing that was funny about him was with football I would be coming into the room and maybe the Xbox would be on, but he wasn’t playing it. He was having the computer play. He was just studying. Or you know when he was doing his homework sometimes me and my wife would have to come in there 1-2 in the morning and say, “Okay you need to go to sleep.” But he’s like, “No I just need to finish this last assignment.” Or you’d come in there and he would fall asleep with a football. In high school you really knew where his head was. He was very focused.
Jonathan V: Right, right. That’s wonderful. You touched on cancer. From what I understand it was leukemia. Is that correct?
Darrell: Yes, it was hairy cell Leukemia. It’s I guess rare. It only happens to about 800 people a year. That’s a bit different. It’s a blood cancer. So, basically my white blood cells were gone. It started off with pneumonia. And, I was in hospital maybe 2 weeks before they found out what it was. And when they say it will have to be an aggressive chemo where they actually put a needle in your arm for 7 days, 24 hours a day. And I remember the first night that it started. My voice kept leaving for the first week and a half, maybe 2 weeks. And it started feeling like I wasn’t going to leave the hospital. And, that’s when I let my wife bring him up to see me and by then I lost 20-30 pounds. And so they were scared too. I remember the first time for chemo, I called my sister at 4 in the morning and said “No, I can’t do this.” Because It was painful. I wouldn’t wish on anyone. So I said I couldn’t do it. And it was actually right after my mother had died, my father had died and so my sister said, “Your boys need you and we’ve lost so much and they shouldn’t.” So it shook me back in and I was able to complete the chemo knowing that the boys needed me.
Jonathan V: Well, I’m glad you’re still here. It sounds like it was a full recovery?
Darrell: Yes, yes. It’s been 10 years this past January.
Jonathan V: Wow that’s a huge milestone. Congratulations.
Darrell: Yes, I was fortunate in our… I was you know blessed to go through that now looking back on it, because I now….I live life knowing that it can’t be taken for granted.I lived my life prior to that experience where I felt almost invincible. Like nothing could stop me. And, I felt like the lord sat me down. To tell me: “You need to think about other things and be prepared.” It humbled me. It gave me a new direction over my life and what I needed to do and as far as my boys as well. Because I didn’t want them to ever have to live without their father. Your kids shouldn’t bury you at 10 or 13.
Jonathan V: Yeah. Yeah. No, agreed. So you did an amazing job it sounds, switching gears here, of establishing the importance of academics at an early age. How did you approach that? Were you putting structuring even before he got involved in sports?
Darrell: He started at 6. so there’s not a whole bunch of time where he didn’t already have that structure. Because from kindergarten on…7,8, 9 you’re doing homework and then as you got older, when you got to high school is where I speak on: they don’t care about you as far as your education. In Ohio…actually right now you can actually play football with a 1.0. That’s a gym class. So, they don’t care about you short of what you can do for them. And, that’s what I had to make him understand. Nothing’s going to be given. And, we’re not in the situation in our life where we can give you everything. So, therefore you have to be willing to go out there and get it. You have to show them that this is what’s important. It has to be important. It can be important to me and your mom, but it has to be important to you. And what’s important to you, you will do whatever is necessary to make sure that you accomplish that. You know even now he’s going back to finishing his degree now. So he is taking online classes from Boise now. Because that’s what he said: I’m going to finish my degree. It’s him. Like I said from 6 on. I remember, his mom put him in a raffle. We try to put all the boys in a raffle. He was in first grade so he actually was able to go dual immersion which is Spanish and English. So half your day you do in Spanish and the other half you do in English whether it’s chemistry, whether it’s math. By the time he graduated high school he was a native speaker and fluent in Spanish. So, he understood the importance of that too. You need to be bilingual in a society where everybody’s a melting pot. It sets you apart from everybody else.
Jonathan V: That’s fantastic, the dual immersion. So, is that a charter school?
Darrell: Well, it was only 3 school San Bernadino that it. So there was an elementary, and there was a middle school, and a high school which is why he ended up at San Bernadino. There were better high schools elsewhere that wanted him, but he said “you know I want to finish Spanish I won’t be to do it at another school it’s only San Bernadino that does it.” But it does have a stigma to it. They didn’t have a good football team, they didn’t have a good education system… structure. But, they did do well with like honor students so now you’re om all these honor classes and so you’re getting the good teachers and you’re getting them regardless of what school you were at. And then I remember my barber telling me when I was telling him, “No, I want him to go to this school or this school.” He said that the numbers are there, anybody will come. They’ll come. The schools will come. By him going there, by him excelling, by universities coming there looking for him, it helped the other youths in San Bernardino because while they were there, they would look at other schools. And now, they’re constantly coming in checking out students.
Jonathan V.: That’s terrific. What were your philosophies or your approach, your wife’s and your approach to discipline?
Darrell: You know we got whoopings when we were young. I think my difference…what it was… because you know we did the standing in the corner, so if you were going to get a whooping then they have to do something pretty bad. But even if you were going to get a whooping, my thing was you got 3…3 hits. And then, I would ask you first before I give another was to ask, “Do you understand why you’re getting a whooping?” They’ll say Yes and then after they got the whooping, I would ask, “So what did you learn?” And, then they would explain this, that or the other. Now Alex on the other hand, he got 3, 4 whoopings period. Because he watched his brothers. And, he knew everything not to do and so when I say he was easy as a child, from 8 on he was easy. My thing was once they had their cell phones, if you didn’t do your chore before school I had this thing at the time you could go on and cut off the internet and everything. And the only phone call they could make was to me. So when they go to school and want to make a phone call, I say, “Hello?” And they say, “What I did I forget?” I said, “You figure that out.” For them, you could call me and you could call 911. As they get older… as you get 9-10 years old…so then you have to find out what they want, what they like, what they appreciate, then those things you take away and then they’ll correct the behavior.
Jonathan V: Mhm. That’s great. Oh, I love that. When was it that you felt that Alex really had some potential with football? From what you were saying earlier, it sounds like he had a passion for it from a very young age and got engaged with that and that it wasn’t really until maybe in Boise where you felt like, “Okay, the NFL is realistic?” Was there a time in between where you’re like, “All right, he’s got some chops here. This is some flame that we should fan?”
Darrell: Definitely I would say 8. He did the first 2 years and it was maybe 4 or 5 running backs on the team so they kind of split him up. And Alex might get 2 or 3 carries a game. And then, I remember him coming to me saying, “Dad I want to play more, you know. I could do what so and so does too. They don’t have a gold star running back.” And I said, “Well I could go and tell the couch that you should get more playing time, but then I sound like every other dad who wants their kid to have more playing time. You have to go and tell your coach that you want more playing time. And then you stand next to him and so anytime he look somewhere you’re already standing there.” And that’s what he did in this high school. Alex never took his helmet off. He was always standing somewhere by the coach. It was funny because he was still doing the same thing at Boise when he first got there and the players had to tell him, “Go sit down. Go over there.” Because that’s what his mentality was: If you see me, you’re going to put me in the game. And so once he started excelling, he would come to see him and then he would notice that… I consider him a man among sports because he would run through everybody and it would take 3 to 4 people every time. This is at 9, 10,11 to bring him down.
Jonathan V: Wow. Were you someone that knew a lot about football?
Darrell: Well I played one year of football like junior all American. And I remember getting my belt on and I remembered and I think that the ref…i said is that legal? Once they say yes, I said I don’t think this is a sport for me. So, I love watching football. My wife actually played football for a minute, so she actually did a lot of drills with them too as far as that goes. So, it was really a combination of me and her helping him learn his passion. And, Alex never didn’t have a football. And so what we did was when he was young, me and his mom would tell his brothers that whenever you get a chance, try to steal the football from him. So whether they were at the barbershop or whatever he sat with the football, his brothers would try to grab it from him. So that taught him how to hold on to the ball and I think that worked well, because I think he might have had two fumbles or so in his career. Those types of things, small things, really help. And then I have a friend who actually paid for the Jaguars in his sophomore year. He actually had Alex doing all the normal football drills. So we were both there weekends and worked out for 4-5 hours with him.
Jonathan V: That’s wonderful. That’s great. Is there anything in particular that you recall that he got out of that?
Darrell: I want to say yes. I will say that it’s the bottle was when in the third and fourth quarter come is when you’re getting stronger, they’re getting tired. So the drills that they had him run were endurance drills. So when the third or fourth… If you watch any of his games, that’s when you start noticing the players don’t want to tackle. Because while they’re getting tired, he’s getting stronger. So third and fourth quarters were when Alex is always at his best because he’s conditioned to endure. Once it became snowing and wet, that was when you have to have the football off. You can’t work and he was ready for that because of the training and how he conditions his body.
Jonathan V: That’s fantastic. Were there other specific individuals that come to mind to help you in your wife with raising your boys?
Darrell: Well my barber. They had the same barber for from the time they were two. He’s older than me so he constantly instilled different wisdom for them. Or he would talk to them or if I was saying something that we were dealing with, he would back me up and reconfirm what I was saying to them about what they needed to do. Well when they thought I was wrong because I didn’t let them go to a party or hang out, he explained to them why we were doing that. Sometimes you just need someone else outside of your voice to say the same thing you’re saying. They take that in more. Alex was never a partier anyway. So that was easy. He doesn’t drink now, never did drugs. He was always focused. You know, he always had the same girlfriend since tenth grade. And so, he was grounded and focused. But my sister, my barber, my brother in law (that is my sister’s husband) were intricate. And then also there was my Pastor Stewart. He was also very involved in the church. My sister, my brother in law, the barber, and pastor I would say are a big part of the village that really helped.
Jonathan V: That’s fantastic. Is he still your barber?
Darrell: I’m in Texas now so whenever I’m in California yes. He would always…Man, that’s my brother. He was at the draft party. And for over 20 years, he’s been a person that I can count on to do that. And he was the person where if I was at work and my wife needed to take the boys to get their haircuts, she could drop them off and leave and let them have an environment at the barbershop with these men exposed to them as well and know that they were gonna be alright while she would do what she needed to do.
Jonathan V: That’s fantastic. Can I ask what his name is?
Darrell: His name is Quinn but we call him Q. That’s Uncle Q. To them, he’s Uncle Q.
Jonathan V: That’s wonderful. When Alex got into high school and it seemed like he would be pursuing a possible career in football or at least at the college level, I have no idea how that works. Are there things that you need to do as a parent or that a child needs to do to start preparing themselves for that possibility? Are there people you need to engage with or get advice from?
Darrell: The key thing is and this is from learning it. We were all over the place as far as how you go about getting your child to a top 10 or a division I college to play football. I think there’s a program called MCSA or something — literally like 1500 dollars. And they’re supposed to get your tape in front of division I head coaches and all this. None of that happened. The fact is that he put in the work. He had a coach that actually reached out to universities. And once you start you know…in his Junior year he had a 2000 yard season so automatically going into his senior year people want to see what he wanted to do. and by then I think he got its first offer right before the start of his senior year. and that’s where I learned. because that coach actually came and said to us, “well now you have an offer, you’re gonna get a lot more offers.” so we got a few more start trickling in but I learned…that coach actually had called Alex and told him you know that he was being ungrateful because he hadn’t made a decision on where he wanted to go and they had offered first. I remember Alex telling me that and I said, “Well call him and tell him you’re no longer interested in that university and get a scholarship to the one you like to.” That’s the thing that the parents have to know: the questions to ask the coaches. Because they’ll come and they’ll show you a dream, Oh what we’re going to do. they can’t promise you a spot. They can promise you a scholarship but they can’t promise you you’re going to play your first year, second year. All that. if they’re doing that, more than likely you’re going to be lost in the shuffle. You have to find a school that cares about the children not just what they can do on the field but academically as well. And Boise state with coach Carlson, they put academics first. They’re not one of the schools that offer you money because everybody assumes when Alex went to San Bernardino that we got money because there’s no way he should be at San Bernardino. No, he decided he wanted to be there. Same thing with Boise. People were like, “Oh did the school give you this?” No! they gave us nothing. They said, “We will allow him to compete. If he comes up here, we will give him the opportunity to compete for a spot. That’s all I can promise you.” By that, I knew that when he made a decision to go to Boise, it was going to be the best for him not only football wise because they do produce a lot of running backs. And you wanna make sure whatever the… like he’s a running back so you want to go to a running back school you know and that’s how you know he ended up going to a division I school. Because there’s a lot of division I talent but either their grades aren’t good… because when coaches come to schools they don’t come right to the field to watch you. They go to your attendance office first. They see what your grades are, if you come to school. If you don’t do those 2 things there’s nothing they can do. So you want to make sure that the requirements … find out what the requirements are, what GPA you need, what I need on the ACT, what I need on the SAT. And that’s what we did. We got our background on what he need and he checked all the boxes. And that’s what the Vikings said. When they met him at the combine he checked all the boxes so they already knew that that’s who they wanted and they didn’t want anyone else to know they wanted him. That’s why they never called him again.
Jonathan V: Interesting. How do you describe fatherhood, being a parent, after your kids have left the house? How did that relationship change? How are you continuing to engage with your kids?
Darrell: It was harder in the beginning because my twins when they turned 18… your kids turn 18. They’re not grown. And that’s where people get it wrong. Just because you turn a certain age doesn’t make you’re mature; it doesn’t make you any of those things. So you still have to parent after that. When Alex was at school and he had a question about scholarships, funding or if he want to do this, he still calls me. Same as my mother said they’ll call me asking certain questions because you’re still dad, you’re still mom. That role never changes. You have to learn how to release a little more, because you know they were 18 but I still wanted them to be my babies and they weren’t. And they were growing into men so I have to let them be men, but at the same time I understood that we’re still naive at 18 or 19. People could still tell us certain stuff and we would believe in it. So as long as I’m breathing my sons will call me and ask me anything and I plan on always being there as long as God gives me breath.
Jonathan V: That’s great. I wasn’t planning on asking about this next topic, but since I first reached out and now the world’s changed, there was the horrific killing of George Floyd ,which really was one of many other types of events that led up to that point that triggered a lot of the protests that continue to go on now. It’s somewhat encouraging to see that there are so many people involved in trying to find a way to push for durable long-lasting change. As a father, were there conversations that you needed to have with your kids about race relations?
Darrell: The George Floyd thing was bubbling over. But being raised in Ohio I’ve dealt with racism. I’ve been spit on and I’ve dealt with a lot of things. So I had a lot of animosity towards… ‘Cause Ohio was black and white. There was no difference. So when I moved to California i’ve never seen a Spanish person before. I never had a taco and I never had a burrito. So, it was a culture shock for me. But being in the military and going to things, you meet so many different people and from so many different walks of life that by the time I became a father, a lot of the stereotypes and things I had dealt with growing up…the anger in me was softened because I got to know people who were just people. You know we broad stroke a lot of things when we were kids because that’s all we know. Being in California where it’s a melting pot of so many different people … you know Alex’s girlfriend is hispanic. My other son’s girlfriend is white. So, they always say whatever you don’t like you’ll have in your family so you have to learn to love everyone. So my kids already knew that you treat everybody the same way. If you can say, “Oh, I got some white friends,” or, “I got 2 white friends,” you’re counting them then no you dont. You understand what I mean? Like one of my good friends in California I know that by us becoming friends over the last 4-5 years, his view of black people changed because he wasn’t raised around them. But when he did live around them they bullied him and beat him up so that gave him a different look on black people. So I understood where he was coming from but after this George thing he says something really deep to me where he said, “I’ve never had to pray over my kids for protection or somethings I know that you have to do with your sons.” And I think that only once did my children have any police interaction and when I found out I was so upset because they were just standing outside of the barber shop and the police came up and have them sit on the curb telling them you know, “what ya’ll look like somebody…” They had them sitting out there 15-20 minutes. That was his first interaction. That was when my son decided he wanted to be a police officer. But as a father I wasn’t there and I felt like I wasn’t there to protect my sons. And so I understand that concept totally, but my sons understand that everybody’s equal. So that’s why given this platform now, Alex speaks out because that’s how he was raised. I told him, “You don’t have to be quiet.” That’s the thing about the education part. If they take the NFL away from you or you couldn’t do what you wanted to do at that time, you have education. You’ll have something else to do. But you don’t bite your tongue when you see someone else being oppressed. So now when he speaks up, the one thing I always say to him is to never be silent. Whatever it is that you need to vocalize, be vocal. But wrong is wrong for anyone and I don’t care who it is or what color they are. If you see something that is wrong then step in.
Jonathan V: Yeah it’s terrific advice. It reminds me of something I heard recently from somebody who said it’s not enough to not be a racist. We have to be anti-racism and it’s different.
Darrell: It’s the only way that change occurs. It’s easy to be silent. I remember being in the 11th grade and there was a guy pumping gas and some boys from my high school were… I think they punched him maybe twice. And I was coming out of 711 and the thing that struck me was that he had a 5-6 year old daughter with him, but he was a white guy. And so I went over and said, “Adam, stop.” But it wasn’t because of anything. This child looks up to her dad. Why would you do this to this man with a child here? It’s something that will scar her. So she might not like black people not because they ever did anything to her but she watched what happened to her father. There’s different things…it could be one major thing that changes everybody’s trajectory of where they’re going. But I feel like we’re all like ping pong. I mean, pin balls. If, you know, you go this way you get hit by the flipper you go that way, but you might not have went that way if you weren’t hit by the flipper. When I was mad, when I was young, when I’m at the playground and a white boy spits on me or something, those things resonate. So for a long time my mind was the same way: they don’t like us, I don’t like them. Until I moved to California and we lived in an all white area, all my friends became white and they’re just like me. But being Ohio where we grew up at, it’s an all black neighborhood. You only see you. The only white people you see were on TV or if you were at a doctor’s office or something but you don’t engage or interact. I’m in Texas and I, you know, I get vibes, I get different things. But that’s not going to change how I treat the person next to me because I know who genuine people are who Love you unconditionally regardless of anything. So I’ll still say hello and question and if you don’t say hi back, no problem. But I won’t be the reason that people look at black people as a whole to say that’s why I don’t like them.
Jonathan V: Right. In addition to that are there things that in a bigger picture level you feel needs to be changed in society?
Darrell: I would say the way we respond. For most part I’m looking at as black people is … well something happens and that’s what I like about what’s happening now. so often before it , black people, we got together, we decided we’re gonna try to protest or say something and nobody else from the other nationalities were concerned. And the one thing that I hate was we would go hard for something for a week and then the week after we don’t think… we don’t hear about it no more. There’s still people dying. So at this point in time, it’s the consistency of what we get. If a month from now we’re not talking about it anymore because there’s something else going on, nothing was accomplished by this man’s death. So it’s the consistency and everybody being involved. When I see the protests or go to a protest, when you see everybody united against something — not the looters and other stuff; I’m just talking about the ones that really want to see change for no other reason than it’s right — then that’s where the change comes after. People say, “well white people may be doing it out of convenience now.” No, these people like that were raised with my son or my son’s age. They grew up with, you know, with everybody and they don’t have the same hate or anger towards Black or Hispanic or Chinese people that we might had in the 70s or 80s. As that grows, as these types of people get involved in it, then everybody …then you’ll see the changes. But it has to be everybody. It can’t be one group of people. You know if you’re gay and you’re protesting about equal rights but it’s only gay people, people aren’t listening because you’re only hearing yourself. But when you have 9 gay or transexual or whatever it may be, they all come together and do something. It’s not one. You can’t ignore everybody and you might be able to reach somebody that I couldn’t reach, because you’re around them. And I can reach people that you might not be able to share my views on how it is. And once that happens, once everybody’s voices are involved, that’s when you see the change. You know people shouldn’t say… statues being taken down… Somebody had posted saying, “Well why isn’t Obama’s statue taken down?” And I don’t care about a president’s statues as far as whether it’s Obama or somebody else. But, if it was a genuine slave, just like the Confederate flag…when I get…when I see the Confederate flag is mostly racist people is I ran into them, when they ride pass me in the trucks and flick me off or they got the flag going to the side. So if something is hurtful to someone … you know Obama’s statue is not hurtful to anyone. He wasn’t a slave owner. You know so that’s where I’m looking at it at. You know I loved the Dukes of Hazard (?) when I was little. I don’t know that the Confederate flag was on the General Lee. I didn’t know anything different. I don’t know not to like the Confederate flag. But, as I got older, I saw what a lot of times it meant to other people. “Oh, it was a time where you know my uncle had slaves and I wish that time will come back.” Why? Things like that, they don’t make sense to me. And that’s just how I look at it. When people say: forget or move on. If nothing is literally changed or if we can’t live in different places … there’s still places that black people can’t go live in. You know in North Dakota or South Dakota you know where the black woman’s house got egged when she moved out there. It still happens. So if it’s still happening to one, it’s happened. You have all these people you know trying to tell people were hanging themselves. You’re not telling me that all these black people are now randomly just going out there hanging themselves.
Jonathan V: From a tree.
Darrell: Yeah. Your past… you know your race went through … those images are embedded in there. That’s what we’re going to decide to do? If you decide you want to kill yourself, you gonna hang yourself by a tree. It makes no sense. That’s what I mean. So things like that. You have to be the change you know. We just have to stay consistent and keep pressing on with this. We can’t let our foot off the gas now. It’s reform time.
Jonathan V: It feels different this time. But to your point and it needs to be a persistent, durable chain.
Darrell: Right. If you’re still trying to find reasons why this man was killed or justify why he was killed, there’s something wrong with you. Because I don’t care what his crime… i don’t care if he had been fighting the police. Whatever was going on when we saw him for those 8 minutes and 46 seconds, he was not moving and he was handcuffed. He wasn’t combative. You watched the life leave that man’s body. So if you can look at that and say, “Well he shouldn’t have a fake $20 bill.” So my life is worth a fake $20 bill?
Jonathan V: Right. how many of us would be dead right now if that was an appropriate punishment?
Darrell: Thank you, thank you. No one ‘s perfect, we’ve all done things. And if you look into someone’s closet or their family’s closet, you’re going to find something. And I guarantee you a lot of it is gonna be worse than what you said George Floyd did. I’ve learned we have to have the conversations with our kids of how you have to respond to the police. I don’t take it lightly, but the one thing when I’ve been pulled over I’m always very calm because there’s no reason to be combative. My hands are on the steering wheel and then I ask them questions. So they’ll say, “Do you have a driver’s license and insurance?” And I said, “Yes, I do. My insurance is in my glove compartment and my driver’s license is in my back pocket. Is it okay if I reach over to get my insurance?” And, I found that a lot of times we have actually some levity and the conversation changes and we both go on about our way. Hopefully, they were not… if I’m reaching for anything then I have to announce when I’m reaching. But it’s totally different if you are already walking up to my car with your gun unclicked. What is it? I had a bad tail light. Is that a reason to have a gun ready? I pulled over. I cut off my engine. Where could I be going? So it’s not our perception… my kids, we just making up stuff. If you lived our lives and you went through it, you know it.
Darrell: And that’s why I’m happy that I didn’t… my son didn’t have to experience what I experienced but I’m sure that at some point in time they have.
Jonathan V: And now one of your sons wants to be a police officer.
Darrell: Right and that’s why though. The change has to come from within. They’re not going to dismantle the police department, we need police. and everybody’s not bad but when you see the police officer that hit the guy with the baton, when he comes out to be in charged. The police are standing outside in their civilian clothes clapping like we support you. If you’re not able to say he’s wrong as the police, then how can we expect you to protect us? There were four officers around when George Floyd died. And it’s not that you have to get explosive with your partners. How much is to be like “lets ease off”. Nobody else had to hear that. But nobody thought that okay this is wrong? That’s where that’s where society finally got mad. Because you see first hand… if there was no video footage of that, he would have been dead and the officer would have been justified.
Jonathan V: yeah yeah certainly the cell phones and the prevalence of them in the recordings are very real component of change because it’s bringing visibility and light to these things that have been going on for so long.
Darrell: And that is what I’m happy about. I want to see it. And my thing is if you’re not part of the solution, stop being negative towards people who are trying to be, trying to make a difference. If you are content in your bubble then be content in your bubble over there. But you don’t feed it into these kids. Because these kids won’t be like that unless you raise them to be.
Jonathan V: Yeah, I imagine it must be exciting. And, as you mentioned earlier you must been proud to see Alex achieve his goal knowing that that was his goal to get into the NFL but you must be really truly proud to see the person and the man that he’s become, the character that he has and to be the type of person that will speak out against injustice.
Darrell: There’s nothing that I’ve been prouder of. Going through the journey with him thus far and when I get a phone call from a friend who lives in Arizona and they mentioned Alex or Boise or something and the person speaks about Alex’s character as a person far above his football. So when people .. yes I play football but what am I past the football player? When people speak of that before they speak of your football, then you know that the person he’s become is the person that you raise and that you get right.
Jonathan V: That’s great. I had a few relatively quick closing questions. The first was pretty straightforward: is there any advice you would give to other fathers, either fathers of kids who want to pursue a career in football or to fathers in general?
Darrell: Find the passion that your children want and feed it. They’re going to go through multiple things that they think they want to do and then they lose interest. One son acted like he wanted to play soccer, but I bought a soccer ball and when I would come home I would be sitting out front and said, “well why aren’t you playing with the soccer ball?”. And he said “I did at school.” and I said, “but if you’re trying to be good and this is what you wanna do, you practice when you get home too.” So once you learn that that’s not their interests you can’t be mad at them for not wanting to do it. You know a lot of times we try to live vicariously through our kids. If I was a football player and I didn’t make it to that next level I will push my son that much harder so that he could get to that next level. And what that does is rob the passion from them. Feed them on what they want to do. If they decide they want to do it no more, tell them it’s OK and move on to what’s next until they find something that interests them and they want to stay. But never force anything that you wanted to do as a kid on your kids because you’re trying to make up for what you didn’t do and never not feed something that they tell you they’re interested in. Even if it’s only for a short time.
Jonathan V: That is fantastic advice. Is there anything else that we didn’t touch on you think might be helpful to share with other fathers?
Darrell: We touched on mostly everything I thought we were going to but more so than anything my father was a little harder. And I remember I used to be like Kato to see him when he came home and I’m like the pink panther and I’d hide. And I jumped out on him and tried to hug him. Because being raised by my grandmother with a lot of you know kissing and a lot of hugging, genuine love. And when I live with my dad,he wasn’t lovely dovey like that. So I started being more steady, because he was like “ugh get off me, don’t do that.” So I’m like, “Okay well maybe men don’t do this.” So, as I got older and I have my own sons I realized that that was still one of my weaknesses. So I would have to think early on: “You need to tell your son you love them or hug your sons.” Because it wasn’t something that I was used to doing. Their mother did that because she was very compassionate and loving. So I had to think about it. So even if it’s not natural or doesn’t feel comfortable, hug your children. Kiss them. Tell them you love them. You’re proud of them. Because there’s nothing more they want to hear that they made their parents proud.
Jonathan V: That is wonderful advice and I think a fantastic note to close on as well. Darrell, it has been a pleasure talking with you. You’re just a fascinating individual. You are obviously an excellent father. Excited for you for the prospects that all of your boys have in their future and to see how things play out for Alex in this upcoming season.
Darrell: Indeed. I appreciate your time and I’m glad I got a chance to do this. If it reaches anybody or teaches someone something that someone didn’t teach that I had about my head a couple of times to learn, this is worth it.
Jonathan V: I think it surely will. Thank you Darrell. Have a great evening
Darrell: You too.